The “Pro-Life” Movement: Dangerous, Selfish, Lazy

So…362 anti-abortion bills were proposed in 2011, and over 350 have been proposed so far for 2012.

Anybody else getting nervous?

You’ve probably noticed that Planned Parenthood, a sexual health services provider for millions of people living in the USA, has come under an extreme political attack. Major threats to defund the organization, straw-man sting operations, and multiple bombings of clinics are just a few recent events in this chaotic spiral.

Planned Parenthood provides a much needed service in the United States: birth control, family planning, pregnancy testing, cancer screenings, STI prevention, HIV/AIDS services, and various other vital reproductive health services that a healthy country desperately needs access to. So why all the violence?

Because 3% of Planned Parenthood’s funds go toward abortion for accidental pregnancies.

Extremist Christian groups, under the dishonest banner of “Pro-Life”, have thus made it their top priority to shut down the entire organization that is Planned Parenthood in order to stop the abortion care. The debate about this Planned Parenthood/abortion/pro life stuff typically revolves around how we should feel about abortion.

But I think invested time and resources in that debate is futile.

Humans will never have universal feelings about abortion. We just won’t – it’s a personal issue that examines how humans feel about their own existence. Tough stuff. The sooner we become okay with having different feelings about it, the sooner we can take a look at the practical side of things….that is, the scary amounts of terrorism surrounding access to abortion. I know the word “terrorism” sounds extreme and dramatic in itself, but if we’re going by dictionary definitions, this one fits the bill. There has been:

vandalism: Anti-abortion vandalism leads to arrests

beatings: Pro choice activists beaten by anti-abortion thugs

stalking: Anti-abortion activist guilty of stalking doctor

bombing: Planned Parenthood Bombed in Wisconsin

arson: Man arrested for arson of Pensacola Florida abortion clinic

kidnapping: Anti-Abortion Activists Kidnap, Hold Doctor and Wife; First Appearance of ‘Army of God’?

attempted murder: Anti abortion extremist arrested for attempting to murder abortion providers in Wisconsin

and murder: Abortion doctor shot to death in Kansas church

…all in the name of ending abortion. Keep in mind, these are just a few examples.

But I never hear this discussed, except in super-feminist circles. Why can’t we acknowledge that the “pro-life” movement has evolved into a scarily terrorist-y force? Why is this violence condoned?

Moving on from the violence issue, I have several other problems with the “pro-life” movement that exist outside of the tired “is abortion moral?” rhetoric. It’s time to take a step back and acknowledge the real social implications of anti-choice extremism.

1. “Pro-Lifers” Refuse to Learn From the Past
The facts are pretty clear: those who want to make abortion illegal do not care about peoples’ lives. Plain and simple. Before Roe v. Wade, countless mothers, sisters, daughters, and friends died seeking the care they needed. The years of forced pregnancy were a horrific time for women. It pains me to think about how many were pushed underground into unsanitary, life-threatening conditions in order to plan the right time to have a child. History clearly and unapologetically illustrates that prohibiting abortion does not make it go away, making the “pro-life” position quite literally pro-death. It may be appropriate to mention here that even those who personally oppose abortion/would not have one are pro-choice; you acknowledge the importance of having a choice and do not advocate forced pregnancy.

I strongly recommend this short film called “When Abortion Was Illegal” for anyone who hasn’t seen it. It’s outdated, but its message is firm: we can’t go back. We just can’t.

2. “Pro-Lifers” Don’t Trust Women
An undeniable theme as the wheel of humanity turns is the dehumanization, patronizing, manipulation, and control of women. Academics call this “patriarchy”, and it is embedded in the system that we live in (see my previous post on How Oppression Works). One of the clearest manifestations of male control over women is choosing what they can and cannot do with their bodies. Although there are an undeniable number of women out there fighting against abortion, there are also many MANY men. And the political scene, which is really the bottom line here, is dominated by men. “Dominated” is an understatement. I’m sure you all remember the panel to decide if women should have access to birth control through their employer:

Beneath all the righteous indignation is the steady heartbeat of a humanity that does not see women as rational actors who are fully capable of making their own decisions about their body.

3. “Pro-Life” Terrorists use fear and intimidation to push their agenda
Fear and intimidation have historically been some of the most powerful tools to push an agenda. When people are unlikely to hop on board with a cause, it’s time to find some way to manipulate the masses. Fear is a great way to do so. This fear is reinforced through the “pro-life” movement’s violence and threats to eliminate life-saving health care services for women. It makes pro-choicers in targeted communities scared to go to work, scared to do their job, scared to help women. Intimidation is used every time they march onto a college campus with their enormous fake photos of dead bloody fetuses screaming that “abortion is murder”.

I remember in college, one of these groups came to my school with 8 foot tall posters, screaming and hollering, setting up thousands of white crosses on the lawn to signify the “dead” unborn. Women on campus who had had an abortion (1/3 of women will in their lifetime) spoke up angrily and vocally. The scene was brutal. Within the first hour, 2 fist fights had broken out and the police were summoned. How can a cause claim to be pure of heart when it channels an undercurrent of emotional and physical violence everywhere it goes?

4. “Pro-Lifers” don’t care about the LIVING
I constantly find myself asking: why are the lives of the unborn deemed more important than the real, living people who are pregnant? Are women so devalued to these pro-lifers that they sincerely don’t understand how problematic it is to put the unborn before the living? Regardless of how you feel about what constitutes “life”, the fact does remain that the LIVING BODIES supporting a fetus are just that: living. There is no dispute; they do not rely on another’s body to live, they have a fully developed conscious, and because there is no ambiguity about how alive people who can become pregnant are, they should be afforded all the rights of the living. This includes safe health care, personal choice, and respect.

Further, many “pro-life” forces, which are fanatically conservative, simultaneously enable organizations and systems that are killing machines. “You think Planned Parenthood ‘kills’ a lot of people? Tell me what you know about the corrupt blood-for-oil war the US just fought. Tell me what you know about starving families in the Democratic Republic of Congo, India, Haiti. Tell me what you know about not having health insurance to receive treatment for your disease. Tell me what you know about corrupt governments who routinely kill their people.” In the same conversation, I’ve heard “pro-lifers” convey an undying dedication to lives of the unborn and then casually discard inquiries about unjust war, crippling poverty, and genocide. You cannot claim to be “pro life” without meeting head-on the realities of human injustice on a much broader scale.

5. “Pro-life” is really just a fancy term for LAZY
And I mean, why does a human being not matter the moment they come out of the womb? Why aren’t “pro-life” activists fighting against abuse, for clean water, for food and shelter, against poverty, against starvation, against war, against injustice? How can you even call this PRO LIFE? What is this BIZARRE fucking cause?

The answer becomes clearer when I talk to these people. Fighting for the unborn is easy. No matter what, they won’t win, there will always be abortions and always be people to point their fingers at and scream “INJUSTICE!” “Pro-lifers” can keep on crusading, shaming others, and deluding themselves into thinking their cause is about justice. Perhaps the biggest pro-life delusion of them all is that being “pro life” makes them morally superior. Wow. In reality, their actions are a dangerous, selfish, and lazy way to “take the high road” without helping a single person.

When a living, air-breathing human being actually comes into the world, being “pro-life” becomes infinitely harder. This requires you to actually care about people. The sort of care that takes a critical mind, patience, and self awareness. The sort of care that requires figuring out why things are the way they are so that you can work toward actually fixing them. The sort of care that takes compassion and an unending dedication to a better for life for all humans.

The sort of care that marching around, waving huge dead baby posters, and calling women murderers is completely and utterly devoid of.

176 thoughts on “The “Pro-Life” Movement: Dangerous, Selfish, Lazy

    • Mr Turner, It was a pleasure to find news in the Ukrainian oinnle media about this your blog post, and fully read it here. As I see, you deeply understand what is going on now at Ukraine’s political scene and express unbiased and balanced opinion, as the European diplomats usually do.Unfortunately, if EU will decide to suspend Ukraine’s progress towards Free Trade Agreement & Association Treaty, it will be terribly sad news for Ukrainians as a nation, and Ukraine as a young state. However, it will be incredibly happy news for dozens of old ex-Soviet bureaucrats, officials & politicians here, in Russia & Belarus. Because they obviously want to stay at power as long as they can, and keep this whole territory untouchable by the West with transparency, press freedom, political freedoms, and democracy.I know that global diplomacy is not an easy business. As for me, escalating political pressure on regimes, which neglect democratic values, introducing various sanctions against them can be effective in short term. But I am not sure that the international pressure only could stimulate about 25-28 mln of Ukrainian voters to change their lives for better. I am getting upset looking how Ukrainian authorities are sliding down to Lukashenko’s model.At the same time the world history know examples of finding the unique, complex diplomatic solutions in unprecedented political situations. (Last bloody and chaotic uprisings in North Africa can not be a model for Ukraine, because it could lead to separating my country to two or more pieces of instability for years). Ukraine again is in a unique globally-related situation after the Orange Revolution 2004, may be in much harder circumstances: more poor, frustrated and angry people are against more radical, unprofessional and hungry to power & money only elite which has just almost no compassion.It would be good if developed West (in cooperation with Russia) could find the right tactical & strategic solution, using right tools and ways towards Ukrainian authorities.

  1. I’m pro choice.

    My belief is rather complicated, but ultimately says that all actions are just data.

    The universe started as energy, not emptiness. That energy, over a countless amount of time, gained thought. It learned everything it could and once it became bored started experimenting. Eventually it condensed itself and split into pieces (Atoms) and spread itself across the universe it formerly took all the space of.

    I’m backing up this theory with the mere fact that Space has a vacuum. We all know how to create a vacuum, you do it when you create any kind of suction to stick something to a surface. You have to create distance between 2 objects without filling in the area between them with new matter. So in order for Space to have a Vacuum it had to at one point be completely full.

    Atoms communicate through radiant waves, vibration, just like we communicate by vibrating each other’s eardrums and translating the message. This means that ALL things are alive and constantly taking in information and sending it to each other. This would explain the creation of life and that the meaning of life is to create new knowledge.

    Souls are merely atoms releasing their energy to control other atoms (our bodies). All this would mean that life doesn’t start but always is. This doesn’t make ending a pregnancy wrong because you cannot destroy energy therefor you cannot kill. The atom may be reabsorbed into a new thing and become the new soul of that thing at another time.

      • It could also explain a lot of other things.

        Multiple Personalities being more than one active Soul Atom in the brain.

        Dreams being subconscious data access while the Atom is dormant.

        Heaven and Hell being a dream or nightmare since the Atom isn’t destroyed, and we know how your conscience can affect your dreams. Kinda explaining the whole “be good or you’ll go to Hell” thing.

        What’s really cool is that if we found the right frequency that Atoms communicate on, we could give them orders and reshape matter to be anything we want. Like making a carrot our of thin air!

        • Its always been that way though. Through wars, self defense, defense of property, or just killing an animal so you wont starve. Its been that way in nature sine the start of organisms.

          Our current way of thinking “Save everyone, be humane” goes against nature. Using nature as a reference you could call those starving African children parasites. But its also our fault for letting them get that way instead of letting nature take its course so they can evolve out of that type of life.

          There’s also the people who the law says deserve to be killed by our standards. Rapists, Murderers, and just people who completely ruin or take each others lives in general.

          Its by saying that Death and Killing is wrong that we’ve become overpopulated. Its wreaking havoc on our economy, there aren’t enough jobs for that many people and there’s not going to be enough food soon either.

          In a mere 10 years we’ve gone form 6 Billion people to 8 Billion worldwide. If we don’t find a way to curb that growth rate there won’t be enough land to stand on in 50 years.

          • So, executing heinous criminals is the same as murdering innocent africans?

            And eating lower lifeforms is the same as eating a man?

            What makes natural right?

            Why does the economy matter?

            Why do jobs matter?

            Isn’t lack of food going to lead to starvation and thus a ‘natural lowering of the population’? And therefore, why does it matter that we ‘go against nature’?

            • Ultimately it doesn’t. But people have desires that they wanna fulfill.

              Everything you experience will be recorded in your Atom’s vibration pattern. The Sun will go Supernova, turn into a Black Hole and absorb all the local “Data”, turn into a Neutron Star and start Emitting the information as Radio Waves all across the universe.

              • Are you trolling? The sun will most certainly not become a supernova, a black hole, and then a neutron star. The sun is not nearly massive enough to become a supernova, and for a star to eventually become a black hole, it would need to be around 20 times more massive than the sun. The sun will eventually become a red giant and then a white dwarf and then probably a black dwarf, but they’re still hypothetical. Also, black holes do not absorb everything. Black holes are not cosmic bathtub drains that suck everything into them. They only absorb things like light that cross their event horizon because the gravitational pull at that point is too strong for that light to escape. Likewise, a planet or other celestial body could orbit a black hole given enough distance. If the sun were to be replaced by a black hole of the exact same mass, the orbits of Earth and everything else in the solar system would remain intact, so it wouldn’t, in fact, “absorb all the local data”. Also, black holes don’t become neutron stars. I’m not going to even touch the rest of your posts out of fear that I might rip out my eyeballs in frustration at the sheer wrongness or incoherency of nearly everything you’ve said. Go study astrophysics before you spout nonsense like you’re an authority. I’m now a giant squid of anger. I hope you’re happy.

                • Astronomy has only been around for what, a couple thousand years? And according to scientists the process of a star turning into a red dwarf, or a supernova, black hole, or Neutron star can take millions of years. So they really don’t have any evidence, just educated guesses. Science isn’t exact, only math is.

                  • It can take billions, even trillions, of years, actually, but that’s beside the point, and now I really hope you’re trolling. Also, while astronomy has been around for thousands of years, astrophysics is a relatively new study. This is, of course, irrelevant, however. You realize that physics which includes astrophysics is mostly applied math, right? Special and general relativity are fundamentally mathematical concepts, and quantum mechanics is almost entirely based around mathematical principles. Do you think physicists just run experiments wildly and hope they happen upon a new theory by accident? Here’s a hint. They don’t. There’s this thing called the Hertzsprung–Russell diagram. This might come as a surprise to you, but there are a lot of stars with varying properties that we can observe and measure their luminosities and their temperatures. Just because you can’t observe a specific star’s “life” from start to finish doesn’t mean you can’t observe similar stars a different points of their “lives”. Luminosity depends on temperature and surface area, so a bright but cool star like a red giant needs to have a large surface area. Most stars, including sun-like stars, are observed to follow the “life cycle” of nebula, protostar, main sequence star, red giant, planetary nebula, white dwarf, and then finally black dwarf. There’s actually a metric fuckton of evidence that says a sun sized star will evolve in a certain way. Then you have the Stefan-Boltzmann Law when applied to stars can be used to infer the radius of stars with a given luminosity and temperature. Anyway, tangent. Only very large stars become black holes because a black hole is an infinitely dense object with zero volume at its center. It’s weird. For an object to essentially infinitely collapse in on itself naturally, it would, one, need a very strong gravitational pull and thus a very large mass and, two, be so massive that the comparatively weak gravitational force “wins” out against other forces acting against gravity. When the star is still “alive” it undergoes nuclear fusion, which acts against gravity and a star dies when this stops. A white dwarf is kept from collapsing into an infinitely dense state by electron degeneracy pressure, and a neutron star is kept from this by the strong nuclear force, which is why a black hole could not become a neutron star. It would need to somehow gain enough internal force to get out of its infinitely dense state, which would probably need to be greater than infinity. It’s a weird thing to speculate about and probably pointless since I doubt it could happen.

            • Exactly what I was going to say!

              We have over population because of lack of contraception and other factors like women not receiving education in lots of countries. ”Not committing enough murder” is most definitely not on the list of factors!

              This ToyBoat guy’s posts started off nice and philosophical and then got down right messed up. :/

          • Femeanism is a major problem in our world and Laci Green is part of the problem as is Gloria Allred,etc. brainwashing governments, and innocent people to be deceived through lies about bust,cleavage and rearend compliments. Women who have the audacity to unremorsefully call compliments,whistling,staring, socalled “street” and “sexual” “hassling” are satanic lies from hell. The real criminals are the women who harass men and are not jailed like the real animals they are for making up lies and responding inappropriately to being complimented,stared at,whistled at. And misusing the word “rape” to mean forcing oneself sexually on someone is a misinterpretation, when that word should still be used in its original context. That book by that scumbag Solinas whos a disgrace to women everywheres thats real harassment, that “implies” that men should be killed. Satan must have been talking through Valerie the Devil Lover.

    • Soooo many problems with that, on moral, philosphical and physical planes.

      The calim that universe started as energy is absurd. Remember that there is no such physical thing as energy. Energy is just a number, a measure calculated by physicyst conserved when some processes take place, which is usefull for making predictions. You might want to claim that “Universe started as something that had some initial energy” which is vague, not actually telling anything and it might be false, since there is a hypothesis that universe has and always had 0 total energy as a system (as far as I know it’s not considered a valid theroem yet, but there is some evidence that suggest that it may be the actual state of things).

      The calim that energy over countless amount of time gained thought is at least strange. Thought is just a process, so in a sense universe has always been thinking (you might want to consider a pen falling on the ground “universes thinking”). I think you meant that universe gained complexity, and with that complexity an ability of simulation. Basically you have a huge philosophicall mess on your hands here, you need to straighten up your definitions of words, even just to yourself, if you want to come to any valuable conclusions.

      As to moral objections, as it was said before, according to your logic it would be ok to kill an adult person, and moreover since every action conserves energy, every action would be moral (even all actions would be morally equivalent).

      Well, not to mention that this whole story hasn’t really got any backing in the evidence, and as such it could be dissmissed without avidence. But the misuse of some terms (especially the energy one) just bothered me.

      • All things we perceive as solid are super condensed energy. We found that out when we slit the atom and watched the resulting energy expand like an explosion.

        We also know that you cannot create something from nothing, the Big Bang theory defies that, the notion of God defies that, but my theory doesn’t and doesn’t have any evidence against it where the others do.

        As far as “complexity” goes, that’s really no different from our own thought patterns. Just electrical neurons firing in a sequence, sometimes random, sometimes not. Its not impossible for something with energy to become capable of something like that given an infinite amount of time.

        • Wrong again… energy does not exist as a physical entity. Period. Energy exists in the same sense that number “1″ “2″ etc. exist. It’s just a value that is given to a physical state that doesn’t change with time, when certain conditions are met. I can’t come up with any good analogy, if you’re familiar with math, think of energy as an invariant of physical processes.

          Also, it’s not like you imagine with the atom. It’s not like you slice it open and energy falls out kinda like out of a pinata. It’s more like you hit a nucleus of an unstable isotpe of an atom, with a neutron, and alpha beta and gamma waves fall out. By the way, those waves are actualy particles, and the energy released is the energy of those waves.

          And seriously, by now you give me an impression of a person that really doesn’t know what he’s talking about. There is a great chapter in “Feynman’s lectures of physics” about energy, it should straighten your ideas about it.

          • Okay Toy boat x3, you’re high. Please actually give real knowledge, not unnecessary, incoherent and refutable claims.

        • The difference between you and scientists, ToyBoat, is that you are claiming to know, and they are claiming to make conclusions based on data with the permanent recognition that new data may change those conclusions.

          When you claim to already know, you cannot learn anything new.

 – Read the first virtue, curiosity.

    • I know this was posted a while ago but that is a very interesting way of thinking about it and I never thought of things that. It has given me a new perspective on things. It is indeed quite a beautiful way to look at things. Also very very thought provoking I love it. Thank you for sharing that. :)

  2. ||||||

  3. I had an abortion 3 weeks ago. I am glad to live in a country where there are no pro-life nutties bombing the hospitals or such. Still, reading online forums and newspapers it is clear that there are people who can not discuss the matter like adults. I can only imagine how much more harder getting an abortion would be in a place like the US.
    I remember reading a forum thread where a mother of three young children had found out she was pregnant again, but wanted abortion because three was all her and her husband could handle. She requested help and information about how to go about this, but was met with mostly cruel comments about how “it would be better to just kill all your other kids as well, since you don’t want your new one”.
    Abortion is a tough spot. I decided to keep the information very private, because you can never know how your friends and family would react and the last thing you need is more judgement. My boyfriend and I only told my roomie, my sister and my best friend.

    Yesteyday I had an IUD put in. I feel happy now that it is all over.

  4. Wow, you are incredible, Laci. You’ve been such an inspiration to me.
    You have thoroughly thrashed pro-lifers.
    I happen to be a Catholic, but the title doesn’t mean I believe or follow some of the teachings in church. Whenever they talk about being pro-life or how contraception is wrong I just want to slap someone. It’s so dumb.
    You have my complete respect, and I always look forward to reading a new post on your blog. Please keep the stream of information coming!

    • Thanks Ariana! I’m happy to hear you don’t buy bs that will work against you. It’s surprising to me that the Catholic Church accepts evolution but still holds on to the anti-contraception stuff! I’d expect the reverse.

    • If you do not accept the Church’s dogma then you are not Catholic. I think it is simple why the church only accepts natural family planning as its only form of birth control. Sex is thought of something that is very special and has a certain intended purpose from God. Using it purely for pleasure without allowing the ability for procreation is against that plan.

      If you really reject a certain teaching I would implore you to really research why the church believes a certain way before you reject it. Usually it is after much thought and prayers the church’s dogma is promulgated

      • The Bible every church goes by is very outdated, back then men could have multiple wives because it said you had to populate the earth, we have adapted to so much and may need to adapt some more as years go by, women who were infertile then were seen as unworthy and probably seen only fit to be nuns, now the world is much diferent.
        And if you look at other civilizations before us they even had a crude condom made out of an animal’s blatter.

        AnyBody can be any religion they see fit as long as they believe in it’s Core principles:
        do not hurt another unless you would like that same hurt,
        Forgive those who dont know better
        Help when you can
        Do charity without saying you did
        Love everyone
        Do not Judge
        Do not kill, unless it’s for eating(animal’s)
        Be brave, breathe, and if you need ask for help.

        i may not follow in some writting’s but that does NOT mean that my faith is any less worthy.

        I have seen and heard people that go to church every sunday, judge,and say a person is going to hell because they wear a thong, or wear lipstick even a nude one, so i ask you what’s worse adapting and belivieng your God still loves and listen’s to you, or thinking your doing God work and judging and condeming, when sometimes you would do much worse?

        • Laci Green is a disgrace to the human race. Baby killers who are for the mindless,legalized murders of our infants are terrorists,dangerous,selfish and lazy. on said:

          Thats exactly what demon loving femeanists do judge,brainwash American government through the misquotation of Isaiah 29:21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, that turn aside the just for a thing of nought. This is all done to justify discrimination against men who compliment ladies busts,cleavages and rears. Thats not gender equality and it is not practicing the golden rule our Lord taught us. God is going to send all femeanists who are selfish,insensitive,etc. brats to hell unless they apologize to the public and God for their wickedness, harassing men with empty threats of violence,etc. The socalled women and their socalled movement are real criminals with all their lies about innocent,disparaging remarks, harassing men who look at there breasts and cleavage then compliment. if you arrest, force a coerced apology over something as stupid,trivial,inoffensive as compliments you are on your way to being in hell with demons and Satan for eternity unless you stop holding a grudge against someone for money that the demons are using to control you

    • I’m a Christian as well and don’t believe in all the bull, such as contraception. Personally, I am against abortion but I’m not going to condemn people who choose it because it really isn’t my place to judge. It’s nice to see that I’m not the only one who believes in God that doesn’t like when people treat others who do choose a certain thing like crap.

  5. Although I am pro-abortion (I dislike both ‘pro-life’ and ‘pro-choice’ as terms), a debate on the morality of abortion may be valid, and I would certainly be willing to engage in it. But Hitch made a good point about this: those who want to ban both abortion and birth control are immoral, and make a fool out of themselves. Although anti-abortion, that movement makes no effort to decrease the number of abortions: they also fight against birth control and sex education. The pro-abortion movement actually does make a good effort to decrease the number of abortion.

    In a similar fashion, the GOP is unbelievably hypocrite, and blind to its own principles. The Republican Party says it wants a small government. But when it comes to abortion (or sexuality in general), it seeks an incredibly big government; one that intrudes the private sphere of citizens in with North-Korean zeal.

    I think the refusal to label this movement as ‘terrorist’ has a racial motivation. The title seems reserved for Arabs only. (To my annoyance, the Dutch media constantly reports about “the mass murderer Anders Breivik.” Breivik is a live definition of the term, but apparently his blonde hair and christian fundamentalism exempt him from the title.)

    By far the best documentary I have seen on abortion is ‘Lake of Fire’ by Tony Kaye. It has pretty much everything on the subject; philosophers, activist from both sides, lawyers, Noam Chomsky, the old methods ( coat hangers etc.) the new methods and so forth. It’s a long watch (2,5 hours) but it’s a brilliant and complete film.

    • I am not a republican and I am not a democrat. I am also not a liberal. I am a constitutional conservative. I believe in birth control even though I am Catholic. I also believe in having access to the morning after pill or abortion prior to when the heart begins to beat. What I don’t believe in is the women who use abortion as birth control. Wait! Don’t start sputtering and gasping. You know that it happens. I have talked to women WHO BELIEVE IT IS PERFECTLY ALL RIGHT to not use their birth control appropriately and then just go and get an abortion instead. These are the women who need to be dealt with because my friends these are the extreme feminists and liberals whom just want the government to take care of them if they make a mistake. Like I said before I believe that limited abortion should be available to rape and incest also. I DO NOT believe in abortion because the timing is inconvenient for the woman. You have all the equipment to make a baby (there I said the b word LOL) so TAKE F***ING RESPONSIBILITY and don’t get pregnant. I am tired of hearing from the women whom think that it is their right to spread their legs with no protection, get pregnant and then expect to wait till the f***ing 6th or 7th month to get an abortion. That is bulls***! I am sure that anyone here will agree if the child is born after the 24th week it can survive with help. Aren’t you guys sick of seeing those disgusting abortion signs? If people were more responsible and moral then we wouldn’t hear of STUPID DOCTORS like Dr. Kermit Gosnell killing babies (after they are born and cutting their spinal cord. YUP, its a fact) up through the 9th F***ing month! Now, I am just as reasonable as any of you. I have my college degree and am a mother of 4. I also believe in letting nature take its course. I, for one, am sick of the stupid, lazy women whom won’t take responsibility for their own actions. No, its not your right in the Constitution, to have unprotected sex and expect the rest of us stand by while you have 20 damn abortion throughout your life. While, after you decide to have kids, you bitch and cry, because having an abortion comes with risks and one of them is not being able to conceive later in life. Isn’t it time to defund PP and put decent doctors to work who are not out to just make money killing our babies? I live in Michigan and everyone of the abortion clinics here are under investigation for health violations. I for one have had enough.

      • 1. Why would a woman want to wait 6 or 7 months to get an abortion?

        2. “No, its not your right in the Constitution, to have unprotected sex and expect the rest of us stand by while you have 20 damn abortion throughout your life.”

        – actually… it is… it’s kind of like that time you chose to have unprotected sex and have four children. Roe v. Wade said women are legally allowed to have unprotected sex and have an abortion – and I’m pretty sure they didn’t set a maximum…

      • 1.) You say it’s irresponsible for women to “spread their legs without protection” and then get an abortion. First of all, I hate the term “spread their legs” because it is completely slut-shaming, nothing more. But have you considered that many unplanned pregnancies result from failed birth control? Or lack of access to birth control? Pro-life people like to make out women who have abortions as irresponsible, stupid “whores,” when in reality they are average women just like us.

        2.) I’ve never heard of anyone who uses abortion as contraception, mostly because it’s more expensive!!, time-consuming, and emotional than regular contraception. However, if these women DID exist… why would you want them to be taking care of a kid anyway? Why do some pro-lifers think that a baby is immediately going to make people become more responsible? Do you think someone that irresponsible is going to be able to care for a child emotionally, financially, and mentally? This is the same attitude as a girl hoping her boyfriend will stop being a loser just because she wants him to. No matter how many times she tells him to “get his life together,” he isn’t going to change anything unless he wants to.

        • At what point is this unborn child considered? Why does every consideration have to be for this woman (and man) who made the decision to have sex and produce a child? The problem that I have with abortion is that you have the choice to end someones life simply for your own convenience. And just as cfish says, you can decide to do it as many times as you please. No a rape victim should not be forced to carry her offenders child. No a woman who knows that her baby will die a few hours after birth should be forced to watch the baby suffer. And, I do believe that women should have the right to abort a very early (2 month) pregnancy once. After that, abortion is being used as contraception. And yes these women do exist. I personally know one and I wish that she and people like her could be force sterilized. Yes I said it. These heartless people who would rather kill a baby than be held responsible for their own actions should not be allowed to make children. Period. If you simply must kill a child in his fifth month of gestation because you can’t “handle it”, then how will you later? If you keep making “mistakes” and ending up pregnant like its a disease, then not making anymore should be the cure. Why are only the babies being penalized?

          • 1) If you really think that choosing to have an abortion is a “heartless” decision, you clearly don’t know what that word means.

            2) The babies are not the only ones being “penalized”. There are MANY side effects and complications that can come with abortions, including (in some cases) death. I don’t know the woman you referenced, I don’t know anyone who has ever been in that situation, but I’m sure they felt not only physical repercussions, but mental and emotional as well. It’s unfortunate if the decision was made for fully ‘selfish’ reasons, but why does carrying the baby to term necessitate it living a full, healthy, or for that matter happy life? There are multiple lives to consider when speaking of pro-life, pro-choice, pro-abortion, whatever you want to call it. So putting a blanket limitation on it “before two months one time” just doesn’t help anybody.

            3) And yes, the woman (and man!) involved in the conception should definitely have more say in the matter. Period. If for no other reason than the fact that they’re alive enough to make it. Crying “think of the children!” does not justify ignoring the life of “this woman” simply because you may or may not agree with their life choices.

        • Yikes. Maybe she told you she had a miscarriage baecuse she didn’t want to tell you she had an abortion? Like, maybe she was ashamed to tell you, or she thought it would upset you, or something like that?

      • I’m very much pro-choice but I totally agree – people should NOT be using it as contraception. I’m sure it’s not very common but I know some people do do this.

        However I suggest these people are NOT “extreme feminists and extreme liberals”. That’s not in any way feminist, it’s just irresponsible, amoral and selfish. What made you think that was somehow linked to feminism?

        Personally I aim to NEVER need an abortion, I’ll just use contraception properly until I want a baby. But if I did need one, I would want it to be my choice – not the government’s.

  6. Every year, during mid-May, I have to watch outside my place of work thousands upon thousands of pro-lifers doing their “march for life”. They march because abortion has been legal in Canada since the 1960s, on May 14th. If it doesn’t fall on a day during the week, they’ll pick a day (lately it’s happened on a Thursday), and they’ll march to parliament hill to conduct their protest.

    The majority of this is religiously motivated, a lot of the signs make reference to God which is ludicrous. A lot are young women who are either ignorant of the information available to them, or they have a reason to skip school that day to “protest”. A lot probably come from schools that have little to no sex education, and that lack of information can lead to serious consequences for young women and men.

    My wife and I are pro-choice. Even though we are expecting our first child, we will still continue to support a woman’s right to choose. Abortion in cases of rape or when the life of the mother is in jeopardy due to some complication during her pregnancy are often necessary, both physically and psychologically. In cases of accidental pregnancy, the choice is entirely up to the mother whether she wants to keep the child or not and I as do everyone else must respect that choice.

    Pro-choice is NOT pro-abortion, and it’s sad that pro-lifers don’t understand that concept. Ideally, we don’t want to end a pregnancy, but we must also be reasonable and respect the choice of those involved.

    The power of a well-informed individual outweighs a legion of ignorant masses any day :).

    • I don’t see what’s the problem with that. Not much bridges to build when there’s an ocean dividing the two sides.

  7. Laci this was an amazing post! Best thing i have read all day. It really is scary when all this violence is coming from this group and it does not make any sense at all.

  8. The only reason I believe an abortion is necessary if the pregnancy is going to endanger the life of the unborn child and/or mother or if there is something majorly wrong with the baby that the baby wouldn’t survive or be in a vegetable type of state then I would understand the decision. Other than that, I don’t believe aborting an unborn child is right answer because the child is a living being and did not ask to be brought into this world so why pick abortion over the many other options like giving the baby away once born to a family who cannot have children and would give anything to be able to? I don’t understand why *this* option is picked more often over aborting. I even believe this for raped victims who got pregnant because of the rape. No, I DO NOT believe in rape as I was raped myself but I would never even consider aborting the child just because some asshole decided to take advantage of me. That is not fair to that unborn child who could live a healthy life if you chose to give that baby to a family who REALLY wants a child in their life. This is a very touchy and heartbreaking topic for me because when I was young, I had an abortion myself and I have lived with that regret everyday since because it was the worse decision I have ever made in my entire life. I was young and did not fully grasp that the unborn child was a living being even though it was still a fetus. This is especially why I feel so strongly about this subject because of my own experience and horrific decision. I feel as though when I aborted my child that I robbed them of their life that they could have lived if I chose an alternative like adoption. I’m sure I am not the only one with this type of opinion.

    Thank you for letting us express our thoughts on this sensitive subject matter.


      I think it is absolutely essential to get the people out there educated!
      It isn’t a solution to try to fight the effects, it is the CAUSE that has to be fought.

      Sexuality, pregnancy, birth control,… get the information out there!
      You said yourself, that you didn’t know you carried a living being. But that shouldn’t be a reason to deny people their right to CHOOSE.
      I think it’s good the way they handle it here in Germany.
      We already learn about abortion and pregnancy in school in order to prevent abortion becoming a form of birth control.
      Then when you actually want to have an abortion done, they ask for your reasons and tell you EXACTLY what is happening with the fetus, at what point in the pregnancy it is, what you are doing to it and whether it has a heartbeat yet etc.
      If you still want to abort the child then, you can.

      I disagree with you concerning rape. Would you really want to carry another part of the disgusting person who did that kind of thing to you INSIDE you for 9 months? And taking the risk of actually starting to love it?
      Imagine that happening, you develop motherly feelings for the child can’t really love it with all your heart because it always reminds you of the traumatic experience…

      Education may not be the solution for everything, but it certainly is for a lot ;)

    • I’m sorry that you regret your decision and respect your opinion.
      I just wanted to point out that not all babies that are born and put up for adoption actually get adopted. The other option would be foster care and there are many flaws in this system.

      Personally if I choose to bring a child into this world I want to do so out of love for it and have them know I am a willing mother.

    • I disagree that adoption is an alternative to abortion. Adoption is a wonderful alternative for people who don’t wish to be parents, but abortion is the only alternative for pregnant people who don’t want to be pregnant.

      While I am very sorry you regret your abortion, I would like to point it out that this doesn’t happen to everybody. I don’t regret my abortion at all. The only feeling I have is gratefulness. I am where I am and I am what I am because of this experience.

      I think everybody should be able to choose when and if they want to get pregnant, when and if they want to give birth and so on. It is not fair to use my experience to dictate what other people do.

      Again, I am sorry you feel this way.

    • One other thing to consider is the added nutritional needs of the mother as she brings a baby to term. Aside from the additional caloric requirements for their second and third trimesters, mothers also need to take in more calcium, iron, folate, omega-3 fatty acids, and so many other things that take time, planning, and money to support. Some mothers don’t have the money or resources to make sure they meet these needs. Especially for teenage mothers, who have nutritional needs of their own to meet their growing bodies, babies can leech nutrients (like calcium from bones) that the teens would otherwise need to grow.

      While WIC shelters are in existence to help mothers meet their nutritional requirements, not everyone can get to the shelters or even have the knowledge about what the aid would provide. It is unreasonable to require that anyone carry a baby to term without ensuring that they can also get the aid they need to do so. And in this particular political climate, that seems unlikely.

    • I completely agree with you anonymous. Thank you so much for sharing your experience. Your story made me cry. I believe adoption is a wonderful alternative and there are so so so many families that want to adopt a baby and have him/her from the actual birth day. If you seek out adoption as an option, you can always find someone. There are so many organizations out there wanting to help women in these situations. I pray you find peace.

    • Pretty sure having a child from rape constitutes “damage to the mother”. Psychological and emotional damage can be just as if not more dangerous than the physical kind, ESPECIALLY when brought on from such a serious trauma like rape, and ESPECIALLY when another life is dependent on them. Most victims probably wouldn’t agree with you on the “I would never end an innocent kiddo’s life just because some guy took advantage of me” stance.

      Also, there aren’t enough families to handle all the kids CURRENTLY in the adoption/foster care system, much less if we added roughly 1.2 MILLION (otherwise aborted) kids to the system every year.

    • I agree with you. I think it is selfish of people to abort the baby. They are putting their own needs and feelings over another individual. There are too many people in the world that can’t have babies and when you have one and are willingly putting it to death, I can’t agree with that. Take your birth control, and your day after pills, but when you know that there is a child in your stomach because YOU decided to have sex, either keep the baby or put it up for adoption.

  9. Thank you, Laci!

    I’ve been getting into some abortion debates online recently (bad choice on my part) and have seen things from “saving a life should come before a woman’s freedom” to “people should NEVER HAVE SEX EVER unless they’re willing to have a baby!”

    While some arguments are easier to debate than others, I often find myself struggling to come up with answers, and Google seems to show more pro-life debate techniques and rebuttals than pro-choice ones. It gets especially difficult when you literally have people who think women;s choices about what happens inside their own bodies are meaningless if that decision would result in an abortion. I have used the argument that pro-lifers stop caring about the baby once it’s born, but I’ve gotten the retort that “you don’t know how bad its life will be and it’s better than having zero life at all.” Ugh. Any advice for that one? :S

    • Also, I just watched the documentary – very powerful and insightful, thank you. While it’s old, I didn’t really find it to be dated, especially when laws are being pushed to make things as difficult as they were then. Thank you again.

  10. Thanks so much for this, Laci. Coming from a Catholic high school and a conservative household, these points are often completely overlooked, either through ignorance or intentional oversight. The pro-life movement has the hearts and minds of a lot of people merely because it is such a defensible position. “But they’re babies! You’re killing a baby!” It’s this reactionary argument that seems to flavor so many conservative talking points.

    No one will ever say “Boy, I sure enjoy a good abortion now and then.” They’re not feel-good procedures, but the ability to choose whether or not to be pregnant is crucial to any sort of social progress.

    • I feel like I see that sort of bullshit every single day. “Alright, it’s time for the vote. Everyone who votes for the Save the Babies Act say, “I am a patriot and I love my country.” Everyone who votes against it say, ‘I murder babies and hate freedom.”"

      Dissent isn’t the same as disloyalty. And what does tyranny due to deserve your loyalty anyway?

    • “They’re not feel-good procedures”

      I think this is a very important comment when it comes to this debate. Pro-choice/abortion people don’t think abortion is amazing and everyone should try it. The image of a promiscuous (and Democrat, of course) woman having unprotected sex because she can get abortion if she gets pregnant is absurd and is just another example of pro-life people attempting to demonize the procedure by making its proponents appear frivolous and irresponsible. It is a difficult decision, not in the least due to social factors. Even though as a moral question I see abortion in a gray area, I think it should undoubtedly be a legal and freely accessible procedure.

      Another important point is the “cause” of abortion. In most cases it is unwanted pregnancy, so how do we address that cause? I am amazed that in countries with much more liberal abortion laws (i.e. Europe), there are far fewer abortions per capita than in the US. I think this is largely in part to the sexual attitudes towards sex, and also about sex and birth control education and access. My partners have never had an abortion (because of me at least), but in one instance we (she rather) had to take the morning after pill. We went to the pharmacist and we were given a mandated mini-lecture about safe sex (this was in Switzerland). We already felt foolish about our mix up in bed, and a little more so after this “talking to”, but I see the utility in this sort of continuing sex education. Wasn’t it Hilary Clinton who said, “let’s keep abortion safe, legal and rare”?

  11. I am 100% pro choice on this subject. My own mother had an abortion before I was born, and she was going to terminate the pregnancy that led to me, and as glad as I am that she didn’t, I still can respect a woman’s choice to not be pregnant. The first time my mother became pregnant was when she was 18 years old. I feel that at that time in her life she wasn’t ready for a child, and if faced with the same situation I would be facing a lot of pressure from my family to have an abortion. I cannot say for certain if I would have an abortion, since me and my partner always use double contraception (the pill and condoms) and have not been faced with a crisis situation, but I am happy that if I ever was that I have a choice in the matter.

    It disgusts me in a way that all of this debate over something that should ultimately be a decision between a woman and her doctor has turned pregnancy into something “dirty” and “wrong” in a few circles of supposedly feminist women I know. Ultimately these women have become in my mind completely pro-abortion, which is a naïve viewpoint considering that they themselves are the result of a pregnancy. Pregnancy is a beautiful natural process, and if someone is too young to appreciate or enjoy that process then by all means don’t have child, but don’t sit here and criticize women who have well informed and prepared pregnancies.

    I find myself as a prochoice in the area of abortion, but pro-intelligence in the area of parenting. There are many girls that I went to high school with that are pregnant, with little to no means of supporting their child. That makes me so angry, because ultimately it is the child who will suffer. If a woman is not okay with terminating her pregnancy, than go ahead, have the baby, but don’t subject it to a life of poverty and neglect. There are other options like adoption available, and it shouldn’t just boil down to abortion or keep the baby. Also early contraception works wonders ;)

    • Bagh, any life is better than no life. Even a poor life is a gift. I’m not against abortion, but don’t shame a mother who is poor.

      What utter nonsense. My parents were born into a war. My father was nearly shot crossing the border into another country so he could do his exams and get his high school diploma.

      You think he didn’t want to live?

      I suspect some fool would use my words as a reason why no person should have an abortion, but I’m not sure what to say to that. I suppose that the way I see it, an abortion kills someone who has never lived. But you are suggesting to someone that they should have killed someone already alive.

      I may not articulate this well, and mayhap I’m wrong, but I think that telling a mother, even if you think her dim, who is poor and loves her children that she should have had an abortion is cruel.

      And if she doesn’t love her children? Well, my mother never loved me but I love to live just the same. If I’d been aborted I never would have cared. But if you curse me to death I will know. If you curse my existence, if you look at me with disgust, I will know.

      That’s the difference I suppose.

      • I never suggested anything of the sort that your are accusing me of.

        1) as to your claim that I that I said we should kill someone that’s already alive, where did I say that?

        2) As to poor mothers, I grew up in a poor family. I have suffered both poverty and neglect. There would be times where my mother would just refuse to wake up to even make me something to eat when I was hungry at the ages where I couldn’t make something myself. I would wear dirty clothing for days because my mother didn’t change me. My grandmother would comb knots out of my hair the size of tennis balls when I was small because my mother didn’t care to see if I was well-kempt. I lived in a downtrodden neighborhood where I couldn’t even go to the park literally a block from my house for fear of being shot. I am not exaggerating either. I had to learn to take care of myself at an age where honestly I should have been able to be a child. Growing up with this background, I think all children should have the opportunity to grow up in a well adjusted home with a parent or parents who can provide for them and all of their needs.

        3) I never said that poor women should have an abortion, because there are so many people who would love to have a child but simply can’t due to a number of reasons, so adoption is an option for those who can’t go through with abortion but are not fit to be mothers.

        • Also in response to your comment that “dim” women should have an abortion:

          By pro-intelligence, I meant to articulate that the decision to be a parent, to take responsibility for another person’s life in essence, should be done intelligently. It should be done after much critical thought as to; Can I support this child financially? Can I give it a life where it does not want for food and shelter? Can I love this child every single day of its life? Am I mentally fit enough to handle the both mentally and physically draining task of caring for an infant?

          If a person can answer no to any of these questions and so can their partner, if their partner will be involved in the child-rearing process, then they are not fit to be a parent at that point in time in my opinion. Children are for a lifetime, not for when they are good and you ignore them when they are inconvenient.

      • 1) “as to your claim that I that I said we should kill someone that’s already alive, where did I say that?”

        “But you are suggesting to someone that they should have killed someone already alive.”

        What I said, in other words, you are suggesting to a mother that they should have aborted a person who is now grown. And I’m saying that is a cruel thing to say to someone. Or in even simpler terms, it is akin to saying, I wish you were never born.

        Or rather, that was what I understood from the last paragraph when I read it. However, you just went on to explain that that wasn’t your meaning. Looking over it again (after reading your further comments) I can see what you meant now.

        Also, I wasn’t making accusations or attacking you. Those were my thoughts, but no more and no less.

        2) Define “all their needs” please. I believe that you are not exaggerating, I’ve had similar experiences, but I’m not sure I like where this line of thought is going. It sounds like we’re about to say that who can and cannot have children should be controlled.

        3) I think I’m of a mind that adoption is preferable to raising the child if the mother is unfit, but I’m not sure if you are saying she shouldn’t be able to have an abortion simply for the want of it, are you?

        4) I’m not quite sure on my thoughts on the last part.

        “Can I support this child financially? Can I give it a life where it does not want for food and shelter? Can I love this child every single day of its life? Am I mentally fit enough to handle the both mentally and physically draining task of caring for an infant?” <- the crux of it

        Just mentioning that I didn't ignore it, but I'm still thinking.

  12. Laci, I like that this post illustrates the thought process you used when you entered the debate between Miss Raisa and Antitheist Angie. I was very impressed with your clarity in that conversation.

    At the time I personally bemoaned the fact that that hour of audio was too obscure a meme to spread. This post points out a way to dispute the self-righteous in a way that allows it to improve the human condition. Amazing.

  13. Strange, because just today I ran across an acquaintance who I had wanted to be friends with at first, but changed my mind after we spoke at length. He and I arrived at similar conclusions on some issues, but with very different reasoning and in the end I fear he disdained me as much as I grew to disdain him.

    He was often raising issues and I’ve no trouble speaking my mind. One of the topics we had debated was abortion. That abortion was acceptable we both agreed on, but he was quick to add that there was a time limit. I forget his specification, since everyone seems to have a different number in mind, but perhaps it was a month or three; however, it matters little to me. I responded that I don’t care at all until the baby is born. I think that until then it is a part of the woman’s body and she can do as she likes just as she can amputate her arm if she willed it.

    It’s safer to have an abortion earlier, but if a woman is impregnated at sea and the ship doesn’t return until she is eight months pregnant then I don’t care in the slightest. She can have an abortion if she wishes. The means and the safety of the living and thinking person, in this case the mother, are what matters. It may not be pretty to remove a further developed fetus, but I don’t cringe away from doing what’s right because it’s not pretty.

    I think justice is cold and hard, it makes for a better world but it’s tough to carry out. He’d have had that baby born because he thought it too gross to give the woman the freedom she desires.

    Mayhap I’m wrong, I’m just a young boy, but I don’t think anything is wrong with it. And I don’t mean when a woman is raped because most abortions aren’t sought out by rape victims. If a woman doesn’t want to give birth and she has the means not to then she is free to do it. I don’t think she needs a justification like rape or physical danger, though then it becomes more urgent and I would counsel a woman to seek abortion even if she didn’t want it rather than risk injury.

    And that’s counsel, advise, suggest, but if they wanted to risk the injury then they are free to do that as well.

    But I also happen to think that a parent, male or female, has the same rights. Any biological parent who is unwilling to accept the responsibility of the role of parent should not have that responsibility forced upon them (nor are they likely to be fit for the role if such is their will).

    • I’ve got to cringe when you say you are okay with an 8 month old being aborted. Yikes. In order to abort that child, you most likely have to kill it after it was taken out of the mother. That’s some pretty disturbing stuff.

  14. ‘Further, many “pro-life” forces, which are fanatically conservative, simultaneously enable organizations and systems that are killing machines.’

    ‘They want live babies to make dead soldiers.’ — George Carlin.

    • True. They can be for war, torture, death penalty and guns, and be against welfare and healthcare, and somehow they can still call themselves pro-life.

  15. Pro-lifers are people who are ignorant, or don’t care. They think life begins at conception, even though we could say both the sperm cell and the egg are alive. But it’s only when you combine them that “life” begins? The truth is of course that life began at least 3.5 billion years ago, and hasn’t stopped since.

    Then there are the religious believers, who think that the soul is inserted or created at the moment of conception. But since that’s just a silly belief based on nothing, we can safely ignore it. In reality, a fertilised cell, or a zygote can not possibly qualify for personhood.

    • In reality, as any zygote, fetus, baby, zombie, whatever, is half mother and half father. Where is the distinction between being a compilation of cells, a part of the host, and being a self-sustaining organism? There really isn’t one. Because of this, (and because of your well-articulated point about the soul) I thoroughly agree with you. Amen indeed!

  16. I don’t get the double standard that anyone who has a stance based on their religious convictions is just ignorant and stupid, yet people who believe solely in science are always right. Why do the religious people always end up being attacked for a belief system that brings comfort and good to their lives?

    Makes no sense to me honestly.

    • You know what doesn’t make sense? To believe in something which is, best case scenario, unsupported by the evidence, and mostly contradicted by the evidence. To criticise that, and celebrate science as the only way to understand the world, is not “double standards”. Unless you think that silly beliefs based on some old myth is the same as science. Which it isn’t.

      Without understanding things we are likely to make uninformed decisions. And that will affect more people than just the believers.

      If some believe that a single cell is a person, then they are wrong. No nervous system; not the slightest chance or possibility of a “mind”. But since people are allowed to just decide that some things are true for no reason at all, lots of people will decide that what they wish is true, is. And so they will try to change the laws based on something that’s not true.

      Religion is about belief with no evidence. Science is supported by evidence. Only one of them will make you informed about the real world.

      • i think the most important for ifotrmanion is how do i pay for birth control or other family planning service because you can brevent a prengnancy.there are clinics that do a free test for pregnancy,stds and also you can get free birth control. i was in birth control using pills but i think i dont thook my pill a the right time and thats why i get pregnant but its really inportant to get birth control so you can get pregnant anymore

    • Because (in general, don’t read to far into this) religious devotion tends to come hand-in-hand with the unstoppable urge to force it on others. I hear every week at church that we as a people need to spread the word of Christ, that we need to bring Jesus and the Bible into people’s lives. However, most people (and again, this is a generalization) will not start a conversation with a stranger about how Darwin saved us all. How Lister, or Salk, or Curie should be the models for a perfect life and we should all follow their examples. Religion has a place in the soul of the individual, not in the media. THAT’S why science is construed as “correct” and religion is construed as “ignorant and stupid”. Because of the way it’s presented by it’s speakers.

  17. It’s like I tell people, abortions do not affect me as I physically CANNOT get pregnant. However, I will fight to the death to make sure that other have access to safe terminations. We do not want nor need to go back to the days of coat hangers and women drinking Drano. We are not a third world country.

    • Conservatives not only want to slow down and stop progress, they are now trying to turn back time 50 or 100 years. It’s disgusting and will only lead to more suffering, ignorance and inequality. They are truly insane.

  18. Whenever I discuss this with my peers (bad idea in high school), I always end up seeing weak arguments in favor of pro-choice whereas my pro-life friends say, “If you didn’t want a baby, you shouldn’t have had sex.” I never knew how to respond to that. Any ideas?

    • How about “well if you don’t want to fall to your death, then don’t use an elevator”? It’s a good analogy. Yes it happens, but at the same time, there are so many ways to protect yourself that if the proper precautions are taken, the risk of pregnancy is minimal. And why should we restrict ourselves to only having sex to have offspring? I feel like a lot of people would have a lot of pent up sexual energy that way.

      • I ususally ‘prefer don’t get into a car if you don’t want to die in a car accident’.

        I prefer that because a lot of people actually enjoy driving. I think using recreational activities as an example is best and discussing why they are more than their “serious uses” (such as cars in the military, etc.)

        But of course, it’s still the same idea. Minds think alike? Heh.

    • A woman’s right to choose is lost if she hops into bed with a guy. Same for the guy. Life doesn’t have any free rides, and abortion is treated as a get out of jail free card.

    • How about “there’s a lot more to sex than babies”? Sure, you have to engage in sex to get pregnant, but that doesn’t mean you HAVE to get pregnant to have sex. Or, “so with that logic, if you didn’t want lung cancer, you shouldn’t have smoked?”, “if you didn’t want a hangover you shouldn’t have drank?” Or, even better, “you’re a dumb highschooler–” (aside; sorry, your age group as a whole is dumb) “–what could you possibly know about life decisions and responsibility?”.

  19. This post is disgusting. As a prolife fighter, it is gross that you would lump everyone as a whole. Some of us are intelligent human beings who care about everyone and create intellectual debates on the topic instead of Planning attacks. And further more I support a woman’s right to chOose in a case of rape, but if someone chooses to have sex, they should know the consequences and have to own up to it.

    • So let’s just throw a big hissy fit and let everyone else know that you don’t like something on the internet. In its own way, the ability to choose to be pregnant is a struggle for sexual equality between men and women. Men reserve to right to “walk away”. They don’t have to deal with 9 months of morning sickness, swollen ankles, stretch marks, and the oh so pleasant medical leave to actually deliver the baby. A woman shouldn’t be allowed the same sexual freedom? That is what I feel the right to choose vs forced pregnancy boils down to.

      Your comment reeks of “only have sex if you’re willing to have a baby” attitude, and that kind of negative and close minded thinking is what stops progress. Sex is not always about the reproductive aspect. Yes, that is how babies happen, but it’s not the only reason to have sex. Look at the dolphins, they are another species that has sex purely for the pleasure of having sex, not only for mating.

      • Actually dumb ass I’m a woman so i know all about stretch marks and pregnancy, and quite frankly shut your face until you actually have a kid. As far as ur comment about men, no one was talking about them and they have to pay child support so whatever we all pay our dues. And if ur big concern is stretch marks then you’re a shallow bitch. Any real man would tell you they don’t give a flip about a couple of lines, they are like battle scars and can be beautiful. And if she can express her opinion i can express mine. And I actually said that you shouldn’t have sex if you cant live up to the possible consequences. And as for dolphins, get your facts straight, they are violent creatures who gang rape each other for pleasure. So where’s your sexual freedom now? If someone chooses to have sex they should already know sex is a responsibility and need to treat it as such. If they get pregnant they should have the baby because there aren’t free rides in life so get over it and grow up.

        • So it’s about free rides? If pregnancies can be avoided, that’s a good thing so we all can choose freely. Also, I don’t see why abortion is wrong.

          • In my opinion, it’s wrong because it is usually on sided. The woman doesn’t want a baby, the woman only thinks of how this negatively affects her life. She doesn’t think of the fact that she put herself into the situation. The end result of sex is pregnancy no matter the reason people have it. People try to prevent it in any way that they can and I don’t think that’s wrong. I just think if it happens to you then deal. Don’t selfishly remove the baby and keep moving. Whether you think the baby is living or not, it is still a baby that got into your stomach all by your doing. So don’t punish the baby because of your decisions.

            • Wait, so you’re saying the mother should wait until they child can actually voice his/her opinion and then ask “would you like to be aborted” like from the book Unwind?

        • Excuse you. a) I didn’t start name calling, so congrats on sinking down to the junior high level to confront me.

          b) There are men who just walk away, without paying child support, and to ignore that is to be naïve about the entire situation

          c)By bringing men into it I was illustrating my own opinion on how the abortion struggle in legislature and politics really boils down to a battle of the sexes. The so-called “pro-life” movement pushes a vastly patriarchal agenda.

          d) If you would take the time to read my other comments, I believe that pregnancy is a beautiful natural process, but I was illustrating the cons that come along with the package. Many of these things the male party of the “pro-life” movement fails to take into account. I don’t believe that pregnancy is for every woman, and she should reserve the right to choose whether she believes she is fit to have and/or raise a child.

          e) I don’t like your attitude about what a “real man” is or isn’t. It seems rather sexist in that you want to define masculinity and exclude those who don’t fit into your narrow little definition.

          • “b) There are men who just walk away, without paying child support, and to ignore that is to be naïve about the entire situation”

            Why exactly should a mother have the right to abort her child but not a man? I don’t see how that’s fair.

            When a woman aborts her child, as we all know, it involves actually destroying the fetus and preventing it from living in the first place. But when a man aborts a child (a legal abortion, of course, rather than a medical one) he simply relinquishes his rights and resonponsibility.

            I don’t see how this small number of men who flee the law is somehow the same as a woman having the legal choice whether or not to abort her child. The law doesn’t give him that choice at all and failing to concern oneself with the majority is what I could concider naïve.

          • A) I called u what u are.

            B)I didn’t say men should walk away. But that is in the laws hand to enforce it not me.

            C) Too bad I said nothing about men. And it interesting you did…..I’m sensing daddy issues or abuse

            D)Well I tend to have a busy life so no I haven’t read most of your posts. And I’m glad to hear you know it is beautiful, but the cons of it still do not justify abortion. We all know sex can lead to babies and if that should happen when one is unprepared adoption is an option. Consider all of those who can’t have kids, they would love one of these “unwanted” babies

            E)Well then how’s this…any decent human being would never judge someone on their looks. You seemed so concerned with the physical I presumed you would be the kind who cared what men thought.

            And on a side note this battle is pointless. I have been a member of prolife groups for years and we obviously will never see eye to eye. And my post was originally written to let laci know how wrong she was about people like me. Not all prolife pursuits are violent, infact most are peaceful. However laci grouped us all. I am entitled to my opinion as are you, but it is wrong for laci to group so many people unjustly. As a Christian I follow her posts and often enjoy then as a new view point and food for thought. I don’t comment unless the information is inaccurate.

            • Om my gosh. I don’t think you sould bother with Casey anymore, as she’s arguing like a 14 years old little girl who just have learned big words.

              It’s hard to be respectful towards someone like her!

            • So you’re a woman who knows about stretch marks and pregnancy? Can I assume you’re a mother, then?

              If you are a mother, where the FUCK do you get off bringing up “daddy issues” and “abuse” so nonchalantly? I want you to imagine — with extreme visual clarity — your child being raped every other weekend for eight years by that child’s biological father. Your five-year-old child, raped, forced to perform oral sex, nose broken, gun held to his or her head, every other weekend until they’re thirteen.

              That’s me. I’m that kid. If you truly aim to be compassionate, if you truly care about the well-being of others, perhaps you’ll think next time before you make an offhanded quip/insult regarding one of the most monstrous things a human being could ever be forced to experience.

    • Reasons for abortion isn’t as black and white as oops had sex and got pregnant and getting pregnant due to rape.

      If you enjoy having the government in your uterus, fine, be pro-life, but you should educate yourself a little more on what pro-choice actually is. What pro-choice isn’t: pro-death.

      Pro-”choice” is exactly that, that a person with a uterus has the choice AND ultimately the rights to abort their pregnancy FOR WHATEVER REASON. They also have the choice and rights not to.

      If you want to be pro-life, go ahead, but why do you insist on forcing your own beliefs upon others? Being pro-choice in no way infringes on any of yours, or other pro-lifers’ rights.

      Not everyone wants to reproduce. Saying ‘don’t want to get pregnant, don’t have sex,’ is unrealistic. Sex is awesome and people are going to continue to have it. Unless you personally reserve sex ONLY for reproduction and not at all for enjoyment, sit down and shut it.

      Nobody should be forced into pregnancy and mother/fatherhood. Do you believe that child is going to have the best upbringing? Not that everyone who doesn’t want a child wont raise them to the best of their ability, but perhaps they’re not financially secure enough to provide them the best life, or perhaps they live in a politically turbulent part of the world, or the child will be left to the state to figure out what to do with them and they could end up in an even worse situation than just a poor household.

      I never want to be pregnant. I am on birth control. Nothing is foolproof. I am lucky enough to be in Canada where our abortion laws have remained as is the past 24 years, but it seems the debate may be brought to the table again, and that’s bullshit.

      • Abortion is satanic baby killing, if you love Satan and demons you kill your babies withour remorse on said:

        Its damn true beotch. Our world would have been a better place without laws like the socalled sexual hassling law used as sexist discrimination against men to persecute them solely on the basis that they are male and are strangers thus showing bigotry and discrimination. Btw its rude and disrespectful to call whistling, socalled street hassling. The only real harassment is by the women overreacting childishly when they hear it, so they cry like little bitches because someone is nice and they cant take it like a man so they complain childishly on the internet instead of complaining like that about more important issues like the environment and knowing Jesus as your personal saviour and where your going to spend eternity instead passing and keeping in effect heinous laws like sexual socalled hassling. Those who call whistling and compliments harassment are going to hell.

  20. I recently had an abortion and it was a very difficult experience to go through. It was a complete surprise since both and I and my partner are very careful when it comes to using birth control and it also happened at a very bad time, right at the end of term when papers are due and it’s time to start studying for finals.

    I chose to have a medical abortion since it seemed less invasive than a surgical abortion and I was able to have my family, friends and partner support me while I was going through the process.

    When I went to the clinic, part of the process before taking the medication to end the pregnancy was talking to a counsellor. She and I discussed all the possible options. It was difficult for me to choose to have an abortion because several members of my family are adopted including my mother, one of my uncles and three of my cousins. I did go through an intense period of grief where I mourned the person that could have been if I had chosen adoption as my method of abortion.

    However, carrying the baby to term didn’t make any sense in my situation. It would have disrupted my university studies and I would have certainly faced stigma from certain people. In addition, if I had chosen adoption, my child may have taken the home of another child who’s mother may not have had access to medical/surgical abortion or of children living in foster homes. There are plenty of children in orphanages and foster homes who could greatly benefit from living in a safe environment with parents who truly want them (30,000 in Canada alone). I wouldn’t want to take that chance away from them by choosing adoption as my abortion method.

    I learned a lot of things when I decided to have an abortion. Amongst them is that 1/3 of women under 45 will have an abortion and that terminating a pregnancy within the first trimester is safer than carrying a baby to term.

    I sometimes see pro-life propaganda when I’m driving past rural areas. They’re usually billboards that say things like “Your mother chose you”. Well, when my mother was pregnant with me she was married to a man she could trust to help her raise any children they might have, her financial situation was secure and she could afford to purchase the things that a child would need, she had completed her post-secondary education, and most of all she was ready for and planning to have a child.

    In contrast, both my partner and I are nowhere ready to have a child, we don’t have the means financially to raise a child (we both still live with our parents), and I’m nowhere near done my post-secondary education. I would like to be able to do all the studying I want to do, have a stable job with a reliable income, have a comfortable and safe home, and be ready and looking forward to being a mother before I decide to have a child.

    • I hate that I can’t say cool story because it’s turned into a troll meme. Well, anyway, it was a tale which I read and I was interested while reading.

      I’m glad it worked out for you in the end, and I know how it is to mourn both someone you knew and someone you never met. It’s a rather strange experience, I think. I mean, both comparatively and all on its own.

    • It’s true that an abortion during the 1st trimester is safer than an abortion any later in the pregnancy. (Safer to the mother of course and not the baby…obviously.)

      HOWEVER the risks for miscarriage in a following pregnancy increases after each previous abortion(s). Just something to be aware of. Decisions (CHOICES) always have consequences (whether good or bad). Scar tissue in the uterus can prevent implantation after fertilization. So if you do want children later in life, this is just something to think about.

      Of course the risk for many other physical (and emotional) complications increases with each abortion. I believe it’s just important to fully know what you’re getting into.

      Yes, the link is dated, but the information is true. All the research articles are cited.

      • It isn’t that it’s dated. It’s that it is pure propaganda. The information here isn’t just misleading but outright false and fabricated. If you disagree with something, fine but at least get as much ACCURATE information as you can from an UNBIASED source before you make up your mind based on said info.

  21. Something that I’ve realized is there’s two separate things going on here. The questions are: 1) Do you believe abortion is right or wrong? 2) Do you think it should be legal?

    My boyfriend and I are pro life in that we would prefer people not get abortions (if they can’t support the baby, etc.) but we’re pro choice in that if they choose to do that, we don’t have a right to stop them.

    • Pro-choice doesn’t mean pro-abortion. Pro-choice means that each woman has the CHOICE whether or not to have an abortion. You can be pro-choice and still choose to never have an abortion yourself.

      Pro-life ultimately means you’re cool with the government in your uterus and making all the calls when it comes to your reproductive rights.

    • Pro-life: advocating the legal protection of human embryos/fetuses/babies; supporting the right to life of the unborn

      Ultimately giving an unborn baby a voice (since he/she can’t verbally tell you that he/she wants to live)

      I believe you are in charge of when/how you have sex, which has the potential to result in a baby. There are many birth control methods out there (not just condoms and oral contraceptives, but knowing your body and when you’re ovulating, etc).

      Someone previously mentioned pro-life being lazy. However, isn’t it lazy to kill a living being inside of you that you caused to happen, just because it’s not convenient for you at that time? You had sex, you knew that could result in a baby, so be responsible and don’t take the easy way out.

      • “Someone previously mentioned pro-life being lazy. However, isn’t it lazy to kill a living being inside of you that you caused to happen, just because it’s not convenient for you at that time? You had sex, you knew that could result in a baby, so be responsible and don’t take the easy way out.”

        Oh my God. No. Just no. It is pure ignorance to say it’s reasonable to punish a woman with 9 months of pregnancy and a child. Why the hell would you use pregnancy as punishment for having sex?

        “Easy way out”? “Lazy”? You’ve got to be kidding me. Having an abortion is not irresponsibility. Also, it’s not “easy” for the women who have been emotionally affected from getting an abortion, even it was best for her. Abortion is completely responsible when it comes to the woman and her well-being. Oh, but of course! The woman’s well-being doesn’t matter, right? Because a fetus is more important!

        “just because it’s not convenient for you at that time”? Seriously? You say that as if convenience is of little value. Convenience is a major factor when it comes to carrying and raising a CHILD. A woman shouldn’t have to put her dreams and goals on the line for something that wasn’t meant to happen.

        Give me a break.

        It really comforts me to know that abortion will always be legal and nothing that pro-lifers say even really matter. Hahahaha.

  22. So I’m a male, I think I’m pretty egalitarian, definitely pro-choice despite the inherent unfairness of letting only one parent decide whether a pregnancy ends or not (I think a woman’s control over her body trumps this, but only barely).

    I’m not down with your post though. maybe because I’m Canadian, but I just don’t think the “Patiriarchy” is really in charge anymore. The pro-lifers make lots of noise and do terrible things, but they are, as you say, terrorists, not real political powers. And your link to “kidanpped and forced to give birth” doesn’t fit with a bunch of links about actual news stories. Its disingenuous and it turned me right off.

    • There are a lot of politicians and high media figures who go right along with what the post references as terrorists. The people pushing the laws supported by these same groups tend to be male (we’re talking 85 to 90 percent male). That’s where the “patriarchy” thought line originated from. There are simply not enough physical female bodies on the pro-life side to make it anything other than a patriarchy.

  23. You said a lot of things in this blog about the pro-life movement, so I am just going to focus on one thing. You lumped all members of the pro-life movement in with an extreme minority segment. The vast majority of pro-lifers do not support or condone the bombings of abortion clinics or violence against employees or clients of said facilities. Yet you imply there’s little if any difference between those who merely seek an end to abortion and those willing to kill for it. But that’s just as bad as saying there’s no difference between most Muslims and members of Al Quaida, or most Democrats and Fred Phelps (the pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church. He really is a Democrat. Look it up.)

    It’s easy to dismiss a group based on the actions of a tiny fraction of its members. But that is how all forms of prejudice start. A few members of a group do something you dislike, and the rest of the group does not, in your eyes, do enough to denounce their actions, so you decide the entire group must support or at least condone these actions, so therefore, it’s okay for you to dismiss that entire group, based on an unfair, inaccurate impression you got from a tiny fraction of them.

    • You make a fair point. I’m not sure if it was the way she worded the article, but it does indeed sound like she was lumping all “pro-life” people together. I’m also uncomfortable about her saying “pro-life is really just a fancy term for lazy”. This is a difficult moral issue, and saying people are lazy for disagreeing isn’t a very good argument. Some people simply have a personal objection to the issue, that has nothing to do with these violent beliefs described above.
      Although, I do think this article really is aimed at the radical portion of the “pro-life” group. She should have specified that, though, instead of repeatedly writing “pro-life” as if everyone in the group is a terrorist. I’m certainly not saying her points aren’t valid, I’m “pro-choice” (though not a fan of these labels), and the fact that this argument is still going on personally astounds and pains me. Laci made some excellent points, and these radicals need to be addressed, because what’s happening is awful, plain and simple.
      That said, these points do not apply to everyone in the “pro-life” group, and demonizing all of them (even if it wasn’t her intention) is wrong.

  24. Every being has a right to life. No being has a right to use your body in order to live. If we tried to take away a father’s kidney to give to his estranged son, because the son needed one, there would be hell to pay. It would never happen, the son’s right to life would not trump the father’s right to his kidney – even though donating a kidney has little to no long-term effects. Why, then, is it considered ‘morally superior’ for an unborn child’s right to life to trump the mother’s right to her body?

    • Shouldn’t they have equal rights? Just because the baby can’t verbally tell you he/she wants to live, does not mean he/she has less of a right to life…does it?

  25. Hi, Laci. I really enjoyed your video on hymens. I’d literally never heard a lot of what you said, and you really cleared up a lot of myths, misconceptions, and vague confusions I’ve had for *years*. And you did it with verve and wit. I can guarantee you that the information I learned here is going to save a very special lady some serious suffering.

    So when I popped over here to your blog, and saw the abortion posting, I honestly expected a lot more than what I got. I’m an anti-abortion activist, and I figured (given the unfortunate paucity of sex-positive pro-life YouTube mavens) I wasn’t going to see eye-to-eye with you. But this is just lazy writing. The mindless parroting of decades-debunked myths about the pre-Roe era, the lazy reliance on the necessary lie that the non-personhood of the fetus is an established (or remotely scientific) reality (just the opposite, in fact), and, above all, the nasty smear about pro-lifers not caring about kids once they’ve been born (when, in fact, pro-lifers are some of the most active, most sacrificial charity workers out there… it was all very shallow and very disappointing. Take just one example: I’ve got a friend who comes from a family of 18 kids. Ten of those kids are natural. Eight are adopted. Four of those adoptees are developmentally disabled. Two are non-whites. All are part of the family. And all show up every year for the annual protest against the local Planned Parenthood. You’re honestly going to tell me that the mother who loves and runs that family (with an iron fist!) is a lazy, indignant, mindless housefrou?

    And, if you don’t trust anecdote, go look up some statistics about religious affiliation, political alignment, and charitable donations. Pro-lifers care about all people, even when they do put a justified emphasis on the people who are being *bloodily murdered by the thousands every day.* What you’re saying is like arguing that Abolitionists of the 1850s are clearly lazy hypocrites, becaue they “only care about black people.”

    And that’s a bit of a let-down!

  26. Can we please start a campaign to reclaim the term Pro-life to mean people who are “fighting against abuse, for clean water, for food and shelter, against poverty, against starvation, against war, against injustice” jsut like this article says.
    Take away their justification and we can call them out as the terrorists they are.

  27. Hmmmmm. Your article ends with: “The sort of care that marching around, waving huge dead baby posters, and calling women murderers is completely and utterly devoid of.”

    Please explain to me where the pictures of those “dead babies” are coming from?

  28. I’m pro-life for myself. If I were to get pregnant and I could safely carry the child to term, I wouldn’t abort it. I wouldn’t have the heart. I’d beat myself up until the day that I die if I did that. Other women’s choice is their choice. I wont like their choice if they abort the baby without good cause, but there’s nothing I can do about it and I wouldn’t do anything about it if I could because it’s their choice. If they want to kill a baby for no good reason, that’s their problem, not mine, and I have no business pushing my beliefs on them, like they don’t to me. I’m pro-choice for other women. THye can chose if they want.

  29. The Pro-Life – Pro-Choice argument isn’t so complicated.
    Logically and basically it all boils down to this:

    1. Should the legislature have the responsibility to protect all human life?

    2. Is an unborn fetus an example of human life?

    3. If Yes to both then abortion should be illegal.

    Thank you for taking the time to open your mind to logic.

    • It is my opinion – and one I believe is common amongst pro-choice campaigners – that the answer to question 2 is “no”.

      Both sides are using the same logic, but with different premises.

  30. To win the argument on abortion, I think we need to do two things:

    1: Understand that not everyone will be won over. Even in highly secular, enlightened countries like Sweden have active anti-abortion movements. [1] The important thing is that those in power support the right of a woman to have an abortion.

    It’s also worth pointing out that when people do some really extreme things (kidnap, murder, bombing, etc…) they may not be motivated by what they think is motivating them. To be clear: a guy who goes to shoot up an abortion clinic is labelled a politically motivated terrorist, but the guy who goes to shoot up a cinema is labelled insane. These men each committed the same act against a different target, and the first is probably just as messed up in the head as the second, but gets his motivations taken seriously because he wasn’t shouting “I am the Joker”.

    2: The term “pro-life” is anti-abortion propaganda. Every time someone uses it (even with the scare quotes, like Laci) they play into the anti-abortion users hands. Laci’s points saying that the anti-abortion argument doesn’t care about the living (4 & 5) really expose this propaganda for all it’s worth. When someone argues against being “pro-life” it creates a caricature of someone who really would murder babies. Instead, we should refer to the anti-abortion movement as “anti-abortion” and call them out on how “pro-life” misrepresents their position if called upon to do so.

    Finally, I think the US can have some hope here for the future. Countries tend to get more liberal as time goes by and the younger generation (who are tomorrow’s leaders) are more open minded about this sort of thing. As long as the hearts and minds of these people are won over, the US is heading down the right road in the long run.


  31. Fucking this.

    I know and come across so many people preaching about why abortion is “wrong” and should be put to an end, and when I hear people trying to instill this belief in others it makes me nervous. Nervous for all the women that would go ahead and and abort their babies illegally if abortion was criminalized. Nervous for these women that could DIE in the hands of a black market “doctors” when they would have been able to have the procedure done by a qualified medical professional in a clean environment. Your forth point, just, thank you.

    The other thing that really grinds my gears is how so many pro-life advocates think that “pro-choice” means “pro-abortion.” As far as they’re concerned, we’re telling everyone to go out, get pregnant, and ABORT THAT THING… repeat.
    Wait, what? No.
    Seriously. When someone tries to tell me why abortion should be illegal and I disagree, they go on to tell me how my “wanting to murder innocent babies” is so wrong.
    I just. My mind. So full of fuck.
    Being “pro-choice” doesn’t mean you believe that everyone who ever gets pregnant should abort their babies. Being “pro-choice” means that you believe every woman has the right to decide what she wants to do with her body.

    The other thing that gets to me is when “pro-lifers” are asked their opinion on abortion in cases of rape and incest. More often than not, they’ll say that the woman should go through with the pregnancy and then once the child is born, put it up for adoption.
    When people say this, I don’t think they realize what that entails. They’re asking that a woman go nine months suffering both physically and emotionally, constantly being reminded by her own child of the traumatic event that made it start growing inside of her. Once the mother goes through the pain that is childbirth and the baby is born, they ask that if it can’t be supported it should be put up for adoption. I don’t think people realize just how many children are living without families. It’s not like once you put a child up for adoption they’re immediately part of some great loving family. No, it’s likely that the child will be in foster care for a long time not knowing what it’s like to have a mom and dad.

    I could go on for days about this.
    I’m really glad I came across this post, though. At least I know not everyone in the world is an idiot, haha.

    Keep bein’ awesome, Laci.

  32. This post is so incorrect. I love, love, love Laci Green. I love her passion for what she believes in, and I think it’s freaking awesome. However, I am pro-life. I am for justice. I not only support pro-life but I am very active against abuse, and the other things she mentioned after birth takes place. To say that all pro-lifers are just lazy is to be completely ignorant. I for one, am not. And to label all pro-life supporters as violent and terrorists is just mind boggling and completely offensive. Completely offensive. I support peace, and love, and human and women’s rights. I support the right to peace for a human being from the second they are conceived. I’m not in any way violent or terrorist like.

  33. I hate the idea of abortion. It makes me sick. But more than anything, it needs to stay legal. If it’s made illegal, it becomes dangerous and harmful. Just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean it should be awful for anybody who needs one

  34. Wow Laci! I grew up in a very pro life family and when ever we talked about the issue, which was very rare considering how much my parents care, we would always talk about how “evil” the pro choice people were. How if anything were to be important it would be stoping them. Reading this post I realize how hopelessly pointless this tactic is. My motto in like is to be the change you wish to see in the world, and if that is the case then shouldn’t we be fully concentrating on making all life respected, loved, and fully cared for? The pro life society focuses only one horror in our world and do not look at the whole picture. More than that, concentrating on the opposing side will do nothing. Instead of shoving dead babies in the face of everyone and pointing out the negitives in pro choice they should educate women on the positives and the hope that comes with choosing to keep your baby. Show them why they should, not why they are ” evil” if they don’t. Thanks for sharing this with me!

  35. Thanks Laci! I grew up in a very pro life family and when ever we talked about the issue, which was very rare considering how much my parents care, we would always talk about how “evil” the pro choice people were. How if anything were to be important it would be stoping them. Reading this post I realize how hopelessly pointless this tactic is. My motto in like is to be the change you wish to see in the world, and if that is the case then shouldn’t we be fully concentrating on making all life respected, loved, and fully cared for? The pro life society focuses only one horror in our world and do not look at the whole picture. More than that, concentrating on the opposing side will do nothing. Instead of shoving dead babies in the face of everyone and pointing out the negitives in pro choice they should educate women on the positives and the hope that comes with choosing to keep your baby. Show them why they should, not why they are ” evil” if they don’t. Thanks for sharing this with me!

  36. The bottom line is this: Making abortion illegal won’t stop abortion, it’ll just stop safe abortion, in the same way preaching abstinence won’t stop sex, it’ll just stop safe sex.

    Adoption is a great option for people who are choosing whether or not to parent a child, but abortion is an option for women who are choosing whether why want to go through the emotional, physical, and financial pain of pregnancy.

    You don’t have to be pro-abortion, but you /should/ be pro-right to choose, because come on guys, we already fought this battle when we gave women equal rights.

  37. really my whole view on the thing is, a baby, before its heart starts beating independantly from the mothers, is not a separate human being. it is a growth with the potential to become a baby. and as such, women should have the means to have it removed like any other growth. as for it having the potential to become a baby, that makes it even more important for them to be able to remove it. my mom wasnt allowed to get an abortion (it was either that or she was pressured by religious people not to) and now she has 6 children, and she is so depressed by it that she is probably going to kill herself and them if she doesnt get some therapy and a break for a while. would all you “PRO LIFE” people out there rather that happened, or she stayed with 1 or 2 kids and lived a happy life with a good career. and gone on to do great things.

  38. Please. Stop embarassing yourself by making scathing generalizations. Very few pro life people are terrorists. In fact, all the pro life people I know despise those tactics. Furthermore, we DO CARE ABOUT THE LIVING. I spend, and know people who spend, countless hours doing what we can to help the homeless/less fortunate, and I have long been an activist against abuse and other issues mentioned in this “article”. I respect your political positions because I know I can’t change your mind on the big picture, and I don’t attack you or anyone of beliefs similar to yours by using ridiculous generalizations and uncited, unreliable sources, and I would appreciate it if you did the same.

  39. This is a brilliant post, im from ireland and right now there is a lot of fuss over abortion (its illegal over here btw) and many pro-lifers and when i have seen some marches that they do, i did notice most of the supporters are men. I wish some pro-lifers would read this and realise how much of mistake they are making supporting pro-life. It doesnt even make a difference as 4000 women go to the UK every year to get an abortion

  40. Here is another way to look at it. The more babies that are brought into America will help the poor, people with cancer, people with aids, and especially the economy. 1/6 of the United State’s population is gone because of abortion. That number is almost innumerable. Is your job really THAT important to kill your baby? If you are already 24 weeks pregnant, why can’t you wait another 20 weeks to just have your baby? If abortion in America stopped, gay couples could adopt babies, there would be more babies for them to adopt, women who cannot have children, like myself, would be able to have a better chance of adopting a baby. To me because I am a woman who cannot have kids, see women who get abortions as selfish people. I have gone threw years of tests, I’ve had the Insides of me scrapped, picked at, and what hurt the most is that after ALL of that, the doctor came back and said I could not have a baby of my own. My question to you and women is “Since when was it ok to kill a person because it isn’t he right time for them to be around?” We do not kill the elders when they are old and they have diseases! So why should we kill the future of America when we need them so badly? If a women who is pregnant gives their baby up for adoption, they can have the baby and the second after the baby comes out, it can be handed over to the adoptive parent/parents. As I can tell, you support gay marriage. I do as well. I have seen my two best friends go threw a struggle like mine. My friends who are a. Gay couple have been searching for a child to adopt for over 5 years now. Many adoptive places will not let them, and if they do, they have to go threw an immense amount of paper work, and then they have to be put on a waiting list for about 2 years. This is not fair. Just like how killing unborn people isn’t fair, if abortion stopped, then the process will be a lot easier to adopt, their will be more kids able to adopt, and without rescuing my little girl from abortion 3 years ago, my life would not be as happy as it is now. Please consider this view because even thought I donate money every year to major problems in America like AIDs, child hunger, and more, I still believe that abortion is even worse.

  41. I completely agree with you Laci. You’ve touched on all the important points and I can tell you’re an extremely intellectual, well-educated, woman. Although I believe abortion shouldn’t be used as a continuous method of contraception when accidental pregnancy occurs, I’m definitely pro-choice. It’s sickening how some people, particularly men who have no business in the matter, seek to control a woman’s reproductive rights, despite the negative example of what occurred in the 70′s when it was illegal. Desperate women, when left with no other option and forced to endure unwanted pregnancies mandated by society, resorted to painful, unsanitary, dangerous, and often times fatal, self-inflicted abortions at home. THAT is what those self-proclaimed “pro-lifers” should expect will happen once again. When one says they are pro-life, I would expect them to mean that they are in favor of helping improve the lives of others, such as children in need of nourishment, care, etc, not bringing another undesired child into the world who will most likely join the multitude seeking adoptive parents. A life begins when a child draws their first breath, not when they are a developing cell, similar in appearance to that of other animals.

  42. Your presentation is banal. Trite, tired diatribes which are repeated over and over. Am I judging an eighth grade debate? Prima Facie, boorish.

    The Constitution guarantees Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness to everybody.

    Simply put, is human life worth protecting? or is it disposable?

    How do you feel about Capital Punishment?

    Is Human Life is so cheap, as to be expunge when it becomes inconvenient?

    What about the elderly? Or the terminally ill? Should they too, be terminated when they are of no use; by whomever feels like it?

    If one accepts the position that life is private, and therefore you have the right to do with it as you please, one must also accept the conclusion of that logic. This is the premise of slavery. You can not protest the existence or treatment of slaves on the plantation as this is private and therefore outside of your right to concerned.

    Remember, Margaret Sanger founded the abortion movement as the lynchpin to eugenics; to get rid of the “bottom tenth” of society – namely black folks who moved to the Northern States. The eugenics movement was the basis of the Nazi holocaust – To exterminate the undesirable parts of society.

    Why is Planned Parenthood predominately located in black neighborhoods?

    Of the approx 56 million abortions in the U.S. since Roe v. Wade, nearly 20 million have been black. (The KKK, in its entire history, was responsible for approx. 300 deaths)

    The odds of death from a coat hanger is 40,000 to 1.

    There is a need for abortion; But to deny its racist intent is naive at best and insidious at its worst.

    Planned Parenthood exterminates the inconvenient for the Federal Dollar; Racial Genocide is a Big Business. This happened before and I suppose it will happen again.

    If predisposed to an abortion, you know within the first trimester. Why not limit it, and codify it? Why not put it in the public discussion and let the States reflect the will of their respective populations?

    What are you so afraid of?

    Why does Planned Parenthood support racial genocide?

  43. I am not wanting to get into a fight with you on abortion, I do however think it would be so wise for you to research planned parenthood before being such a strong advocate for them. Look esp at who started planed parenthood (here after called PP), and why it was started. The woman who started it was Margret Sanger, and the why part I will let you discover. You nor your supporters of PP will believe me if I were to state why she did what she did. I will tell you why I am not for abortion except in cases where the life of the mother or child is at risk, and in cases of rape and incest. The main reason I am not for abortion is because I believe life starts at conception. Just by definition alone proves that point to be true, but another reason is because it is doing what PP was designed to do, and that to help wipe out a race of people (for whatever reason, it’s doing it.) look at NY stats for the year 2012– there were 56,000 possible births of black children. But how many black children were born?? Would it shock you if half were only born?? As tragic as that number would be, it would have been nice to have at least half of those children born. No it was not half that were born, to be exact, the number of children that were aborted out of 56,000 was 31,000!! There were more children being aborted by black women then were born. And that is the same trend all across the country. Those were 2012 stats, check 2013 stats when they become available.. There is strong evidence to show that the number is going up for black abortion. This is so sad. I can not stand for a Pratice that is all about destroying another race of people.. And if you did look up why PP was started, you will find that it was for that reason Margret Sanger started this place. Well that’s my two cents, thanks for at least reading my other side to your argument.
    PS. Pease also study Margret Sanger the woman.. I’m sure when you learn the mind she had, it may help with some stands you might take in the future.

  44. I appreciate you posting your views, and I respect you for expressing your opinion. I have one major problem with this post: you’ve lumped all pro-life people together as lazy, uncaring terrorists.. that pro-lifers are marching around, yelling about women being baby killers instead of standing up against violence.
    While there are cases of that, absolutely, this is not always the case. I for one work in a pregnancy center that does not offer abortion because of our pro-life views. We educate women that come in on their options, one being yes, abortion, but also about adoption or parenting. But before we even educate them, we offer them help. We listen to their stories. If we see red flags of violence and abuse in a relationship, we urge them to get away from that relationship and give them the resources to do so. We have a conversation about their options. Whether a woman decides to have an abortion or not, we still offer counseling. The conversations are led by the women that come to us so that they do not feel as if we are pressuring them to make any decision.
    What is not often talked about is the after-abortion counsel that is needed. There are so many consequences physically and emotionally that do need to be discussed but are so often skimmed over in the name of women’s rights. So yes, it is partly fighting for the unborn who do not have a voice, but it is also fighting to make sure a woman is cared for.
    I would not usually comment on a post like this with someone I do not know because I like people to know I respect their views even when they differ with mine (and vice versa) before getting into sticky debates. It’s easy to make absolutes and be misunderstood without that mutual understanding. I just have found your website/youtube yesterday, and I have been binge watching your videos. I appreciate you standing up for women and women’s rights. I just also want you to know there are those of us out there that are doing the same in the name of pro-choice without women-shaming or bombing buildings.

  45. A couple months ago, I had to have an abortion. I am 18 years old. I suffer from a multitude of genetic disorders and my partner is autistic. He is not severely autistic, but just to the point where it is hard for him to think about others and he is very socially awkward. When we decided we wanted to spend our lives together, we made the decision that if we ever had children, we would both get our genes tested to make sure our children would not receive our problems. When I got pregnant, we had not done that. A condom broke. Once. In top of all the genetics, I was very sick. I was deficient of many nutrients, and my body wasnt healthy enough to carry a child. If I had gone through with the pregnancy, I would have miscarried or the baby would have been still born. Also, it would have messed up my own body enough that I would never be able to have kids ever again.
    THIS is why women deserve the right to abortion. I will always wonder is my baby was the sweet little girl of my dreams, but I know she wouldn’t have lived, and I would never be a mother if I hadn’t done what I had done. Mine was a very odd case, but I still support a woman’s right to choose, no matter what the situation. A fetus is essentially a parasite. It takes what it needs from its host, no matter the consequences to the host’s body. If a woman is not ready for that, physically or emotionally, she shouldn’t have to go through it.

    • I’m very sorry for your loss, Hayley. I had a miscarriage last September. My husband and I both grieved deeply, but we’ve come to realize that it was better so. I was only about four or five weeks pregnant, maybe six weeks at the most. There was something severely wrong with my baby, and I was glad to see him spared the suffering he would have had, had he lived. I wasn’t far enough along to know what gender the baby was, but I feel certain he was a boy. Besides, for me at least, it was easier to lose him so soon than it would have been had I given birth to him and lost him afterward.

      I also agree completely with your post. You made some excellent points, and showed a lot of sense. You made the best decision you could. It hurts, and it’s hard, but being a mother involves a lot of hard choices, whether you have a baby at the end of it or not.

      If you are any sort of crafter (quilting, knitting, crocheting, et cetera), you may want to consider making a blanket for your baby. I knitted a blanket for mine. It’s a small thing, about the size of a washcloth, but it helped a great deal. It allowed me to grieve his loss, let him go, and reassure him and me that even though he was here for so short a time, he was here, and he mattered. Hope this helps, and again, sorry for your loss.

  46. I think this is one of the most vital info for me. And i’m glad reading your article.
    But want to remark on few general things, The website style is ideal, the articles is really
    excellent : D. Good job, cheers

    Also visit my homepage – gmail hack download (Declan)

  47. Laci, I usually fully agree with you, especially when it comes to perception of women, rights of an individual and your opinions on circumcision.

    However with this issue I’m not sure. It seems like everyone holding a “pro life” opinion has been lumped together in one big box, when in reality the opinions on people who do not always support the right to chose are as diverse as the reasons for which women chose to have abortions.

    I also intensely dislike the “pro choice” vs “pro life” divide. Although I do appreciate this divide was made long before your post and probably before either of us were both born. A lot of people, including myself, do not fit neatly into one category or another.

    Whilst I appreciate that a fetus until about 24 weeks cannot live without a mother, I do not feel the life in question should not be considered at all. Maybe it is not worth the same as the mother’s life, but I think it is worth something. I do not think I am either a monster or a terrorist for expressing this opinion. Things are not as black and white as 2 distinct schools of thought.

    After my second child I became depressed. My child was exclusively breastfed (wouldn’t take formula) and therefore dependent upon me for survival. Ok, this is possibly an exaggeration……were I to drop dead survival instinct would have probably kicked in and she could have been somehow forced to otherwise drink……..but my point being is that she didn’t suddenly stop being dependent upon me or my body just because she now existed outside of me. And at no point did I have the right to say “I want to end her life…she’s dependent on my body….its my choice”. 3 months earlier when I was 6 months pregnant most people would also agree ending her life would have been very regrettable. Go back another month? The lines are getting blurred……back to 4 months gestation….or 3…….. My point being that there is no clear cut point where my daughter became my daughter, and it is hard to argue why her life is of value at one moment and not the next.

    Does this mean that because I don’t know when life begins I am opposed to all abortion always? No. Sometimes it is the best option….although a regrettable one. If a woman’s mental or physical health is going to come to significant harm then I think it is probably less regrettable than forcing someone to go ahead with a pregnancy. I do however feel like it should be a last resort, not an unregulated “on demand” service. I also think that there is a significant lack of appropriate consent at the time of abortion. Consent requires the information to make an autonomous decision. On one hand, society throws untruths about the risks associated with early abortion at women…..links with infection and infertility are hugely overblown… reality it is physically safer than a full pregnancy and delivery. However the flip side is healthcare professionals providing the service do not make sure women are aware of the psychological consequences and feelings which can often follow. A friend of mine was distraught after realising the 10 week fetus she aborted had a heartbeat……sure, perhaps she should have looked up this for herself….but the family planning services she attended made her feel that it as nothing more than a collection of cells.

    I live in the UK, where hormonal birth control is free for all women of all ages. Condoms are given away at family planning clinics. Between 1/3 and 1/4 of UK women have an abortion at some stage in their life. Of course the service could be improved with better education, especially to younger women. But the statistics do not tie in with the idea that most abortions are contraception failures or occurring in women who are not able to access birth control. Of the 10 friends i know who have had one, 2 were using contraception regularly. Perhaps I just have really irresponsible friends. Women are not completely blameless feeble victims….I don’t think it is unreasonable to hope that people behave a bit more responsibly when the consequence of not doing so is that a very young person is killed.

    As for your point about the injustices in the world, I agree, there are awful things happening. I agree we should all do more about them. But I don’t agree that people who do not support abortion are somehow more wrong for spending money on stupid things whilst people starve to death than those who do not support abortion. We all should be doing more and this is largely an unrelated issue!

  48. What everyone should really been offended at is the pollution and destruction of the environment,baby killings which is killing that honours Lucifer,famine and war,not middle fingers,compliments,whistling on said:

    Unless Laci apologizes for subscribing to the misbeliefs of these heretics who call themselves. “femeanists” she will burn in hell, she thinks she looks “smart” wearing those glasses but shes a brainless moron. Who does not know that men as well as women could stop themselves from having men force themselves on them, if the ladies as well as the men found better things to do with their own time. Its a correctable mistake that can be fixed without caging men inhumanely. Calling compliments disrespectly and rudely socalled sexual, socalled harassment was not the “solution”. This has been a problem the wrongful passing of this insideous,demonic,etc. law since the Sinister Six conned the American people to impose a lie on people since 1976, worst day in human history along with making demonic killings of babies okay in abortion clinics that are satanic too. I am sorry for passing this law to harass you by calling you a sexual harasser which you are not.

  49. Laci is all beauty no brains, a msiandrist who laves Satan thats why she feels its her god given right to bitch and complain and contribute nothing to society at large than to air her lies about mens whistling on this machine, the Internet. on said:

    Laci is one of the creeps on the street passing judgement on men who arent doing anything wrong but she is. Self-victimizing herself with her own self-delusion about men. If I was a woman, thank God I am not, I wouldnt want to have such a stupid mind as hers. Its not a compliment to call whistling something its not harassment. Your lies Laci is harassment of men and me. Harassing men on the sidewalks of Manhattan,New York,etc. by reacting childishly and self deceiving themselves into “thinking” that they are supposedly “uncomfortable”,”suspicious”,all lies from Satan and Laci is going to hell with him unless she calls on Jesus name and repents of being a self-deceived fool who got beguiled through these lies since her teen years since she never resolved her issues with men as much as the scum of the earth womens movement and that scumbag Laci Green whos a spineless piece of jelly never realized posting your dirty laundry about your imagining things about supposedly being hassled by something as trivial,inoffensive and stupid as guys whistling at me shows me up, I Laci Green am a disgrace to the human race and all women on planet Earth today, I only have beauty but I dont have a real brain.

  50. Flameanschism make even intelligent ladies blind,irrational, stupid, That brainless moron who is probably a disgrace to her parents is a good example. Parents should slap their daughters if they turn out as badly as Little Miss Trouble Maker mean Green tu on said:

    Do you know thats “sexual” “harassment”? I “feel” “disrespected”.? Thats weak. If you say that to a strange man you dont even know you have judged and your going to hell. Sexual socalled harassment law is just an excuse for police and pieces of @#$% like you to harass men like me. Laci and all these pharisaical blind followers of this demonic,evil,self-serving womens movement are going to be in eternal pain in hell for their harassment of men through lies, passing judgement on their looks,how they are looking,whistling,complimenting. The Bible said judgenot lest ye be judged. It never said Susan Anthony was supposed to create this monster that has destroyed humanity with its lies about men called the satan loving womens movement flameanists. How would you like if I insulted you by calling your compliment,whistle,staring harassment and made up other lies about you? Thats not practicing the Golden Rule.

  51. I was very happy to discover this website. I wanted to thank you for ones time
    for this wonderful read!! I definitely enjoyed every little bit of it and
    I have you book-marked to look at new information on your site.

  52. First of all I want to say wonderful blog! I had a quick question that
    I’d like to ask if you don’t mind. I was interested to know how you center yourself and clear your mind prior to writing.
    I’ve had a difficult time clearing my mind in getting
    my thoughts out there. I truly do enjoy writing however it just seems
    like the first 10 to 15 minutes tend to be wasted
    just trying to figure out how to begin. Any suggestions or tips?
    Many thanks!

    • I find it helps to just write random stuff. Keep a page in your notebook, or a document on your computer, just for that. Write down whatever pops into your head, without worrying about punctuation or anything, for 10-15 minutes. That way, you can clear your head of all the surface detritus, and maybe the random things might germinate a good idea someday. Good luck!

  53. First, excellent and well-thought-out post, Laci! Kudos to you for actually inserting some sense into the shrill rhetoric that surrounds this issue.

    Second, I am firmly pro-choice. My body is my business, and no one else’s. My husband and doctor can make suggestions and give advice, but the choice is mine, and that is how it should be. That’s really the heart of the matter, isn’t it: who decides who gets to choose what happens to a woman’s body? I doubt I would ever have an abortion, but I believe the option should be there. If a woman chooses to end her pregnancy, for whatever reason, I also believe that the current safe and sanitary conditions should be there for her. Whether or not people believe in abortion, does anyone really want a return to the dark days of back-alley butcher “abortionists”, of special shaming homes for unwed mothers, forced adoptions, non-sterile equipment, high death rates, and coat hangers? Hopefully not.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *


You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>